AndrewLongman.com

Christian Conservative Existential Commentary

Posts Tagged ‘Corporal Punishment’

Corporal Punishment, the state, Q&A

Saturday, May 30th, 2009

In the flood of email from people identifying themselves as Christians, and accusing me of being “pro-torture” I find a recurrent set of problems.  First, of course, I am not “pro-torture”.  The accusation is false and driven by a public confused by media propaganda.

I am in favor of corporal punishment for offenders convicted by military tribunal of capital crimes if, in the judgment of the authorities, doing so would save lives.

Because people have been taught not to think by the public schools and the media, they seem to have great difficulty understanding that position.  But if you take me at my word (you really have no reason not to) and think it through, you will see that the position is quite just, doesn’t favor “torture”, and saves lives.
But here are the typical problems I find, with letter writers’ positions:

1) You [the objecting letter writer] have not separated corporal punishment from torture.  They are different.

2) You have not separated individual obligation to Jesus for the believer, from national obligation to Biblical law for a state. They are different.

3) You have not recognized the sovereign right of a (example: tribunal) judge to order punishment according to crime. He has that right from God, regardless of anyone’s emotions.

4) You have not recognized that terrorism (capital genocide) is an offense punishable by execution if convicted.
5) You do not recognize that in war, it is absurd to bring every enemy combatant into the civilian court system. This has never been done in history and is a ridiculous proposition.  The civilian court system is for citizen criminals, not terrorist enemy saboteurs committed to overthrowing the regime through mass-casualty assaults.

6) You do not realize that citizen due process is a constitutionally established right, and inalienable right to life is stated as a God given right in the Declaration of Independence.  These two are distinct types of rights, secured by different orders.  A terrorist is trying to overthrow the order of the constitution.  A criminal is not.

7) I am tired of answering all the email, so just blog posts on this topic from now on.
Physical punishment meted out to a convicted capital prisoner, by a judge with rightful authority, is an activity of the state, and a punishment less than deserved.

The state, and agents thereof, do not have the same obligations before God as the individual does.  Does the individual have the right to kill the evil doer as he sees fit? No.  Does the state? Yes.  That is Biblical and you keep getting stuck on that issue. Further, then, does the judge have the right (Biblically) to extend just beatings to a prisoner (yes).  Does the judge have the right to hand down a just sentence in accord with the crime (yes).  Does the judge have the right to lessen the sentence, in exchange for the prisoner partially repenting of killing innocent people (i.e. offering information which prevents further death) (yes).  Therefore, if the (military tribunal) judge decides that beating a prisoner, in exchange for information from that prisoner, is an acceptable reduction of sentence from capital to corporal-plus-plea-bargain, the judge has that power from God.  It is entirely Biblical.
All these people defending the terrorists and trying to protect mass murderers from corporal punishment are unjust.  And God will rebuke them.

If you make these cognitive/logical distinctions, it is easy to reason your way to a judge applying corporal punishment to a convicted capital offender, as a plea bargain in exchange for information which saves lives.

In the end, that’s what military tribunals, corporal punishment for terrorists, and firing squads for terrorists do.

They save innocent lives by punishing the guilty.

And when you follow God’s rule, that’s the good you  achieve.

And that’s what its all about.

Corporal Punishment Is Biblical (Get Over It)

Tuesday, May 26th, 2009

Today, steady brainwashing by the main stream media has caused many Christians to be unable to distinguish punishment from torture.  The deluge of very confused email I received, in reply to my recent op-ed, highlights need for exposition.

Oprah-logic chooses to ignore the fact that I advocated corporal punishment for the guilty, convicted by military tribunals of capital war crimes.  I don’t know how to make that clearer, because that’s what the whole article was about.

Apparently the media has so delegitimized the military that looking to a “military tribunal”  is equivalent to asking the Pee Wee’s Big Adventure Cast Reunion party to randomly, “choose between the words ‘guilty’ and ‘innocent’ based on how you feel.”

Most complaints came from self-identified Christians who feel that Niceness has supplanted a blood-purchased John 3:16 as the only true indicator for salvation.  Most are firmly convinced that the Bible abhors corporal punishment.  My jaw just goes slack in amazement.  So:

Does God employ corporal punishment?

If they violate My statutes And do not keep My commandments, Then I will punish their transgression with the rod And their iniquity with stripes.”  -Psalm 89:31-21 (NASB)

Does the Bible say that corporal punishment is appropriate for some people?

On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, But a rod is for the back of him who lacks understanding.” –Proverbs 10:13

A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, And a rod for the back of fools.” -Proverbs 26:3

The rod and reproof give wisdom…” –Proverbs 29:15a

Does the Bible advocate corporal punishment, even for children?

Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.” –Proverbs 22:15

He who withholds his rod hates his son.” –Proverbs 13:24

Does God really work that way?

I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men…”  –2nd Sam 7:14

But isn’t everything so symbolic that it’s meaningless?

“…then it shall be if the wicked man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall then make him lie down and be beaten in his presence with the number of stripes according to his guilt.” -Deuteronomy 25:2

More than the rod, the Bible teaches that capital punishment is not only a rightful power of the government, but also a responsibility.  Any “Christian” who does not support the death penalty isn’t someone I can converse with here, because it is assumed in my position and stated flatly in the Testaments.

Does the state have the power from God to kill the evildoer?

For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.”  –Romans 13:3-4

Somewhere, Christendom got the message from their “personal” relationship with a “personal” Jesus that if they-personally wouldn’t personally punish a convicted criminal that …it is infinitely not-nice to do so, and so, of course, Jesus wouldn’t either.

But What Would Rick Warren Do is not a faithful substitute for the logical conclusions of a comprehensive Scriptural mandate.  One reader concluded that because he couldn’t picture Jesus “torturing” a prisoner, that all corporal punishment must be against God’s will.  Earlier, the rod was spared and the child breathtakingly spoiled.

Earth to the Niceness Driven Church: Do you realize that God gave governments and individuals different responsibilities? Did anyone tell you that King Jesus is going to slay people with a sword and rule them with a rod of iron?  There is no way The Returned Jesus Christ will be invited on Oprah. I promise.

From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.” –Rev. 19:15

Moving on, I think that once cognitive separation between “corporal punishment” (Biblically legitimate and mandated) and “torture” (a media term meant to convolve punishment with sadism) is made, my column might make sense to the Oprah church.  Maybe not.  Maybe emotional-logic is all we need nowadays.  “Hitting is always wrong” because that’s the, “all I need to know I learned in kindergarten” fact?

But if you are a Christian, concerned for the Biblical understanding, you now have it. God sanctions corporal punishment.  God sanctions capital punishment via the state to avenge evil.  God requires judges to be just, merciful, obeying these qualities for the protection of society at large.  Biblical judges made decisions and carried out the sentence on the spot – the equivalent of a military tribunal. What, for you oh Christian, is so hard about this?  The answer is there’s nothing hard about it in the Bible. You’ve just been taught to feel conflicted by your TV set.

Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

You shall strike him with the rod

And rescue his soul from Sheol.”

– Proverbs 23:13b-14

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